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Offline Highrisen  
#1 Posted : Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:25:30 AM(UTC)
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I cant find the thread about the TTB inquiries last week. That was some interesting reading... Was it deleted?
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Offline Wuglar  
#2 Posted : Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:29:35 AM(UTC)
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Must have been . . . not sure why.
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Offline admin  
#3 Posted : Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:38:19 AM(UTC)
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I have asked the moderators if they removed it, as this is the first that I knew it had disappeared.
As an FYI- we were told that all of the major producers received basically the same letter, so there is no hiding. Tongue
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Offline scotty  
#4 Posted : Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:50:25 AM(UTC)
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I see/saw no purpose in deleting the thread. I placed a test post on the thread then deleted the post--- HMMMM Possibly I slipped. I do sometimes. That may be the mystery solved. My eyes are failing lately.
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Offline scotty  
#5 Posted : Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:56:23 AM(UTC)
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As long as no moderator says they deleted the thread, I must be the dummy that did it by mistake. Sad
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Offline admin  
#6 Posted : Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:57:17 AM(UTC)
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I'll bet that is what happened, as I recall seeing your 'testing' post, but nothing came in after that on the thread. Oh well, I am betting that this new thread will end up taking over where that one left off.
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Offline scotty  
#7 Posted : Thursday, May 23, 2013 10:01:35 AM(UTC)
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In looking at the moderator tools There is no delete thread selection--only a delete post. HMMMM MAYBE YOUR SOFTWARE NEEDS AN ANTI BIOTIC-- or maybe I need a shrink ?????
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Offline admin  
#8 Posted : Thursday, May 23, 2013 10:24:00 AM(UTC)
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I just checked, and there is a Delete Thread option at the top, or if you slipped and selected all posts and deleted (more likely), then it would leave the thread with no posts, and that deletes the thread.
Either way it is no big deal. I expect that the continued discussion will just move to this thread.
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Offline muadib2001  
#9 Posted : Thursday, May 23, 2013 12:13:14 PM(UTC)
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Anyone care to repost what the thread contained? Not verbatim, of course, but what it said? Many thanks!
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Offline FAQs  
#10 Posted : Thursday, May 23, 2013 12:32:17 PM(UTC)
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IMO to sum it up,as with ALL GOVEREMENT they feel the need to stick there noses in every aspect of our lives !
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Offline admin  
#11 Posted : Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:41:02 PM(UTC)
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I wish that I could argue with you, FAQs, but I think that your post pretty much sums it up.
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Offline DrDanCan  
#12 Posted : Thursday, May 23, 2013 2:10:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: muadib2001 Go to Quoted Post
Anyone care to repost what the thread contained? Not verbatim, of course, but what it said? Many thanks!


Best I can do.


Thread: email from Brewhaus

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Today, 09:30 AM #1
coaldust
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Default email from Brewhaus

was notified about my order that the FEDS want a list of all customers for the last 3 years, wonder if they are going to start checking for permits (mine is in the works),

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Today, 09:58 AM #2
Wuglar
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This seems weird they would want all customers being that it is not illegal to make beer or wine. Just illegal to distill it.

I'm not calling you a liar but can you copy and paste the letter?

I just received an order 2 weeks ago and I did not get a letter.

~ Be free and respectful ~

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Today, 10:04 AM #3
scotty
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Lots od scams going around.--- this could be one???

1-----Dont hesitate to ask any question. All questions help us all to keep sharp.
2---- Put lots of information in your question. It helps the answers to be more accurate

After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box

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Today, 10:11 AM #4
Admin
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Unfortunately, it is true. I was told that there are ""a couple others"" also getting a demand letter, and I am sure that everyone here can guess who that includes. In my opinion it is likely a scare tactic to try to get us small distillation unit producers to shut down, or scare enough people away to cause us to shut down. I cannot imagine that they think for a second that the actual bootleggers are buying equipment from us, as those people want to avoid a paper trail. And I can only imagine the negative publicity of busting a bunch of little hobbyists, legal or not. People would see that as big government restricting our freedoms.

As for letters to those who have previously purchased, those are coming, but it takes a while to consolidate the e-mail addresses.

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Today, 11:52 AM #5
dieselduo
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I really don't see how it could be legal for the Feds to get customer lists from Brewhaus. Admin please let us know what you are planning to do about the ""demand"" letter

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Today, 12:10 PM #6
scotty
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I still think is a farce. possibly from a competing dealer that is failing and trying to eliminate competitors

1-----Dont hesitate to ask any question. All questions help us all to keep sharp.
2---- Put lots of information in your question. It helps the answers to be more accurate

After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box

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Today, 12:18 PM #7
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We have already talked to one of our larger commercial distilleries (one that has lawyers, compliance officers, etc., on staff that work with the TTB) to find out if the TTB actually has jurisdiction / a legal right to demand the information. It is within the TTB's regulations, but we need to find out if they have a right to force us to submit the list. If so, then we have no choice but to submit it. If not, then, well, we won't.

Scotty- it is entirely possible. Our lawyer will also ensure that we were not singled out (the TTB agent said that we were not, so our lawyer would have a field day if a government agent lied to a point blank question). If we were singled out, then the lawyer will likely have a good fight. If we were not, then we just have to see if they have a true legal stance or if it is just government bullying.

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Today, 12:40 PM #8
dieselduo
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If our privacy were to be invaded I would hope we would get the heads up first

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Today, 12:41 PM #9
John Barleycorn
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So you received a letter from the TTB demanding a list of your customers that goes back three years? Do I have that right? Or were you informed that a such a letter was being drafted?

Better start taking an inventory of your personal affiliations ... voter registration, Tea Party, contribtions to political campaigns, religious and/or fraternal organizations, etc., etc. ... and perhaps those of your larger customers. I'm not trying to be funny here ... I'm VERY serious. We've already seen how the IRS wing of the secret police were activated. If you have any doubts, just take a look at history ... how Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin excuted their first steps during their rise to power: elimination of the opposition ... much of which began through administrative actions using the power of a supposed legitimate authority.

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Offline John Barleycorn  
#13 Posted : Friday, May 24, 2013 12:41:25 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: Admin Go to Quoted Post
As an FYI- we were told that all of the major producers received basically the same letter, so there is no hiding. Tongue

At least they're being overt and impartial in their demands for information. Of course there's a big difference between how the information is collected and how the information ends up being used. I suppose we'll see."
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Offline RCRed  
#14 Posted : Friday, May 24, 2013 2:20:19 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: John Barleycorn Go to Quoted Post
At least they're being overt and impartial in their demands for information. Of course there's a big difference between how the information is collected and how the information ends up being used. I suppose we'll see.
I dunno, JB...Given the current goin's on, I am not comfortable with the government holding any information about me.

I used to be fairly outpsoken on other forums/venues about the state of things, but I've started to wonder if it can all come back on a fella and so I've pretty much gone ""off grid"" on that as well as saying too much."
Windows DesktopSoftware for home Distillers and AFP Small producers




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Offline John Barleycorn  
#15 Posted : Friday, May 24, 2013 3:02:02 AM(UTC)
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"Red,

I had a long sit-down talk with my kids about all of this some years back. It was when all of the social media stuff was breaking out. I told them never to sign anything unless they had no choice ... and that there is no such thing as private communication ... there are simply costs (technological or otherwise) associated with the effort required by a third party to access their communications. So I completely understand your perspective. The good news was that one of my kids ""got it"" and deleted all of their social media (and similar) accounts, never to return. Another is close to doing the same.

It used to be ""loose lips sink ships"" to address the potential enemy presence during times of war. We've come a long way ... it's no longer a matter of simple trust ... there are now many good people that fear their very own gov't on a daily basis. Fear is used as a control mechanism. Very sad."
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Offline Jctab73  
#16 Posted : Friday, May 24, 2013 1:25:03 PM(UTC)
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Hey Scotty this sounds like one big conspiracy to me.... Lol...
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Offline Jctab73  
#17 Posted : Friday, May 24, 2013 1:41:30 PM(UTC)
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Hey Rick, I feel that the move they are making, is there way of trying to destroy yours and the others business. By relinquishing the names of those who purchased stills from you and the others going back 3 years, will really put a screeching halt to your mail order business. It has everyone on this forum stewing . How can u want to do business with people when they know there privacy is being scrutinized and breeched. I feel for you and your employees. I hope I am wrong. Where's the privacy laws? How do we continue to do business with you if they are taking inventory on US? I am thankful you are up front with us we support you fully. What can we do as customers to help you and protect ourselves at the same time? Please advise and continue to keep us in the loopCursing
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Offline Wuglar  
#18 Posted : Friday, May 24, 2013 6:46:36 PM(UTC)
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Yes, I only in the past month have received my PSII.

So I figure for sure, I would get contacted being I have just recently received mine. Iv thought about the options and im not left with many good ones.

1. Use it and be quiet.
2. Not use it and leave it empty.
3. Sell it.
4. Move it.
5. Tell TTB I sold it.
6. Only use it for water. (prepper)
7. Licenses (a lot of regulations and opens yourself up for inspections)
8. Write my senator.

How long before you have to come up with the list?
Do you make the list or are they pulling sales records?
What are the consequences of an incomplete list?
Instead of a list of purchasers maybe a list of plumbers on accident? RollEyes lol

Hrmmmm . . .
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Offline admin  
#19 Posted : Saturday, May 25, 2013 3:07:39 AM(UTC)
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I am sure that part of the TTB's motivation is to get the still producers to shut down, but keep in mind that only distillers, not supplies, must be reported. As for the penalty for not complying, it is extremely significant (if memory serves, $1000 per distiller not reported, but don't quote me on that).
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Offline Wuglar  
#20 Posted : Monday, May 27, 2013 9:12:08 AM(UTC)
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One more question and I will leave it alone for awhile.

When will the list of names be made available to TTB?






Thanks again Rick
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