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Offline captinjack  
#81 Posted : Friday, August 02, 2013 10:58:42 AM(UTC)
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I read it over and I can't see anything to change. Nice Job, I forwarded yours and JB's link to a state representative here in CA. and also 2 federal Congressman (Thompson and Huffman) our local rep's here.
Offline Alli  
#82 Posted : Friday, August 02, 2013 1:05:01 PM(UTC)
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"I saw on TV tonight that OUR congress has recessed for 5 weeks (35 days). That means they just may be back home where their constituents live. Will they be available to the people that elected them is another question? What this SHOULD mean is that we (said constituents who elected them) might have a shot at talking to them about our proposed legislation without traveling to DC. I apologise for the obvious sarcasm, it just comes out naturally. However now is a good time to try to catch your congressmen/women in one of their home offices and schedule a face to face. Hell, there is a silver cloud in every lining (or do I have that backwards?) It is way past 5:00 o'clock in the east.

Go get'em folks - this mat be our chance. Alli"
Offline Hokey  
#83 Posted : Saturday, August 03, 2013 3:51:31 AM(UTC)
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Hi Alli. You can add Congressman Stephen Lynch, US Senator Ed Markey, US Senator Elizabeth Warren and State Senator Thomas Kennedy, all from Massachusetts, to those sent the proposals. Tom Kennedy is from Brockton MA. They were sent to their respective Boston and Brockton offices. I added the link to the powerpoint to the cover letter also.
Offline futurenmc  
#84 Posted : Saturday, August 03, 2013 5:36:58 PM(UTC)
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NC Congressman Walter B Jones will be contacted when i get the time over the next few days ill keep you posted.
Offline Alli  
#85 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2013 6:09:02 AM(UTC)
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Can someone tell me how to post (on this forum) a link to my excel spreadsheet of congressmen/women that have been contacted so for? Bare with me, my first computer was a slide rule- tried to sell it but it is only worth $10 bucks.
Offline RCRed  
#86 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2013 7:07:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Alli Go to Quoted Post
Can someone tell me how to post (on this forum) a link to my excel spreadsheet of congressmen/women that have been contacted so for? Bare with me, my first computer was a slide rule- tried to sell it but it is only worth $10 bucks.
You would attach it to a post using the manage attachments button under the "Go advanced" post button

1 - Post reply
2 - click on "Go advanced" on lower right side of text reply box

Then, follow the instructions here:

http://www.brewhausforum...ting#faq_vb3_attachments
Offline SlippySlope  
#87 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2013 9:47:00 AM(UTC)
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I think this is great working document. I'm going to comment on Health and Safety Issues: Poisoning on page 11.

Originally Posted by: John Barleycorn Go to Quoted Post
One of the most prevalent misconceptions about homemade spirits is the notion that they can cause
blindness or even death. The misconception is largely due to a practice commonly employed by
prohibition era moonshiners and bootleggers: that of adding methanol (methyl alcohol) to previously
distilled spirits. This nefarious practice was used to increase profits by increasing the volume of illicit
spirits with the much less expensive and widely available methanol.


You are correct with the practice of "adulteration" of distilled spirits to make more out of a little...i.e., they added ingredients to expand the quantity. This adulteration was done, as you pointed out, with ingredients that could cause illness or death (and, in some cases, blindness). There is a book, entitled "Bad Whisky" by Edward Burns, published in 1995 and written from old newspaper reports in Scotland about the adulteration of Scottish whisky.

However, I don't think this would be the issue because the home distiller would be striving for quality (especially, since he is his own market) and the last thing he wants to do is make himself sick. I think the real potential for poisoning is the different types of alcohol that fermentation produces.

The oldest method of producing whiskey is simply to ferment and distill grain. However, this process produces poisonous impurities, called fusel alcohols (also called fusel oils), along with the ethyl alcohol. Fusel alcohols are a mixture of several alcohols (chiefly amyl alcohol, methyl alcohol, isopropyl alcohol) produced as a by-product of alcoholic fermentation. The word "fusel" is German for "bad liquor". In the alcohol industry, fusel alcohols are known as congeners. Congeners are responsible for most of the taste and aroma of distilled alcoholic beverages.

During distillation, fusel alcohols are concentrated in the feints or "tails" at the end of the distillation run. The fusel alcohols have an oily consistency, which is noticeable to the distiller, hence the other name "fusel oil". When using a pot still, the distiller will make the "cuts" with the final distillation and separate the "heads" and "tails" (i.e., the "bad&#8221Wink from the "hearts" (i.e., the "good&#8221Wink. These heavier alcohols can be almost completely separated in a reflux still without making "cuts". So, the key is for the home distiller to understand the different types of alcohol he is producing and knowing how to separate the good from the bad.

My understanding is that the moonshiners, using a pot still, made a single distillation spirit and, for the most part, didn't make the "cuts" and, therefore, the bad stuff was in the Mason jar - and some people got sick (and some went blind).

I'm not sure if this tracks with the intent of your section on poisoning in your working paper but those are my thoughts.
Offline SlippySlope  
#88 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2013 1:56:44 PM(UTC)
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I recalled reading something on the "going blind" issue and so I went back and found it on homedistiller.org
Here it is: http://homedistiller.org/intro/methanol/blind
Offline Hokey  
#89 Posted : Thursday, August 22, 2013 8:17:39 AM(UTC)
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Hi everyone. I talked to the newsroom of my local news paper. The girl I talked to said i should send an e-mail to them about the story. I told her I did not want my name and contact info public. She asked if home distilling was going was going on locally and I told her it was. When I mentioned that local politicians had been sent the packet of proposed changes she asked me their names and I told her the name of the local state senator to whom I sent the info. I expect she will contact him. He does have my contact info. Maybe he will get in touch with me then. Or I may need bail $$$. And a new wife. LOL
Offline SlippySlope  
#90 Posted : Sunday, November 03, 2013 12:04:58 AM(UTC)
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"Just so everyone understands, here is what we are up against.

Federal law prohibits the manufacture or production of distilled spirits in the United States at other than a registered DSP for which a permit has been issued by the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB). While Federal law allows for the limited home production of wine and beer, no such provision exists for distilled spirits.
DSPs are regulated under the provisions of two laws, the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (the IRC, codified as title 26 of the United States Code (26 U.S.C.)) and the Federal Alcohol Administration Act (the FAA Act, codified in title 27 of the United States Code (27 U.S.C.)). The IRC imposes an excise tax on distilled spirits, requires the registration of DSPs, mandates DSP proprietors to obtain permits not otherwise required by the FAA Act, and imposes strict controls over the operation of DSPs. The FAA Act imposes a requirement to obtain a basic permit and contains various consumer-protection provisions, including provisions related to the formulation, labeling, and advertising of alcohol beverages. The FAA Act also prohibits various types of trade practices within the alcohol industry, including DSPs."
Offline Alli  
#91 Posted : Sunday, November 03, 2013 1:40:23 AM(UTC)
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"
Quote:
Federal law prohibits the manufacture or production of distilled spirits in the United States at other than a registered DSP for which a permit has been issued by the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB). While Federal law allows for the limited home production of wine and beer, no such provision exists for distilled spirits.


SlippySlope,
Everyone involved in this project on this forum is well aware of the many federal laws and regulations that control the distillation of alcohol in the US. If you read our proposed legislation front to back you will see that that the only part of the law we seek to change is that which gives a limited exemption to the home producers of beer and wine. All we are asking for is to be put on the same playing field. Nothing more. All those other laws you mention do not pertain to hobby distillers and we do not seek to change them.. Alli"
Offline RandyMarshCT  
#92 Posted : Wednesday, March 12, 2014 2:13:04 AM(UTC)
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Is the link at the beginning of this thread the most recent revision of this document? I've been digging for a half an hour and haven't confirmed this information. Thanks in advance.
Offline John Barleycorn  
#93 Posted : Wednesday, March 12, 2014 2:42:48 AM(UTC)
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"Randy,

That's the latest. I haven't made any additional updates.

--JB"
Offline SlippySlope  
#94 Posted : Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:05:11 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Alli Go to Quoted Post
SlippySlope,
Everyone involved in this project on this forum is well aware of the many federal laws and regulations that control the distillation of alcohol in the US. If you read our proposed legislation front to back you will see that that the only part of the law we seek to change is that which gives a limited exemption to the home producers of beer and wine. All we are asking for is to be put on the same playing field. Nothing more. All those other laws you mention do not pertain to hobby distillers and we do not seek to change them.. Alli

Ali,
I understand and agree/support the initiative but I just wanted to make sure that everyone understands the various barriers that presently exist. It's not just Federal TTB but also each individual state. As we know, when Prohibition was ended with the 21st Amendment, they had to give the individual states the right to determine how alcohol laws were implemented in each individual state - which is why we have such an eclectic structure of laws throughout the 50 states. For instance, Florida is a three-tier state where you have to be a manufacture, distributor or retailer - but not two (or three) of the categories. So, a manufacturer is prohibited from having tasting or selling a bottle of their product at their distillery. Craft breweries and boutique wineries are allowed to have tastings and to sell (limited quantities) direct to the consumer but not distillers. Massachusettts is also a three-tier state but if you are a "farmer-distiller" you can have tastings, sell direct to the consumer and even self-distribute - AND - non-farmer-distiller pays a $9,000 per year license fee.
I was a founding member of the Florida Craft Distillers Guild, whose initial purpose was to gather all of the craft distillers under one roof and then get legislation changing the law to allow these two items. We hired a lobbyist (not cheap) started the process. We eventually won approval and the governor signed the Bill - but it was not easy. Florida craft distillers can now hold tastings and sell two bottles per year to a consumer. Quite a few craft distillers pleaded poverty and didn't contribute to the fund so the funding load was carried by a few.
So, if we are successful in getting Federal laws changed to allow home distilling (similar to home brewing and home winemaking), do you anticipate that each state will also have to tackled?
Offline RandyMarshCT  
#95 Posted : Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:15:49 AM(UTC)
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John,
Thank you again for all your hard work!
Offline admin  
#96 Posted : Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:30:01 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
So, if we are successful in getting Federal laws changed to allow home distilling (similar to home brewing and home winemaking), do you anticipate that each state will also have to tackled?

One step at a time. At least one state (MO) apparently allows hobby distilling in the home, and I am sure that others will follow. Some states (if memory serves) do not have laws specifically for or against distilling in the home, as it is not a commercial operation and therefore not explicitly covered. That means that changing the federal law will open up legal hobby distilling to many people. At that point (or better yet- at the same time) people can go after changing the laws in individual states. We have had interest from our representatives here in TX, and with MO as a model I think that it will help pave the way.

The Hobby Distiller's Association is just getting off the ground (www.hobbydistillersassociation.org (http://www.hobbydistillersassociation.org)), and the first priority is to push for legalization of hobby distilling. We do not wish to open distilling up to moonshining operations that sell. In fact, those just hurt our cause, and will most likely be put on the ropes if hobby distilling is legalized (why buy the stuff when you can make it at home legally for less?). We are pressing for true hobby distilling- small amounts, in the home, for home consumption and just enjoyment of the process. The Hobby Distiller's Association has just hired a lobbyist, and is moving full steam ahead. Please get involved and support the association once the membership portion of the site is operational. Right now we have Brewhaus, Mile Hi Distilling, and Hillbilly Stills coming together to back this financially, but as you can imagine the cost is substantial. We need help, and just as importantly, we need supporters to sign up so that we can show Congress that this is not just a few people trying to make hooch, but a large group of people interested in the hobby, and wanting to be allowed to enjoy it legally.

It is not a stretch to expect the law to be changed. We have support expressed by several representatives in Congress. The lobbyist is a pro at getting that support turned into action. Now is the time. We will succeed! BigGrin

Rick
Offline John Barleycorn  
#97 Posted : Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:33:52 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: SlippySlope Go to Quoted Post
So, if we are successful in getting Federal laws changed to allow home distilling (similar to home brewing and home winemaking), do you anticipate that each state will also have to tackled?

I would assume that the process would be the same as home brewing & winemaking. Some states may resist as Alabama did with home brewing. But even Alabama capitulated, finally legalizing home brewing this past spring.

The federal statutes represent only the first hurdles, as you point out. However, in light of the recent TTB activities (both administrative and enforcement), successfully changing the federal statutes represent a very significant relief for hobby distillers. I don't recall reading any arrest reports by state/local authorities that did NOT include other activities (such as sale of illicit alcohol, or narcotics, or grow operations, etc.). Fortunately, at least for the time being, the state/local authorities don't appear to be very interested in the guy who is quietly making a liter or two of vodka for himself.

In any case, it's good to have someone with your experience offering insight from real experience. Please do continue to participate ... it will be greatly appreciated.

Regars,
--JB"
Offline John Barleycorn  
#98 Posted : Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:42:40 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: Admin Go to Quoted Post
The Hobby Distiller's Association is just getting off the ground (www.hobbydistillersassociation.org)

Awesome! I have it bookmarked. I'd love the opportunity to be a ""Charter"" member! BigGrin"
Offline SlippySlope  
#99 Posted : Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:49:27 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Admin Go to Quoted Post
At least one state (MO) apparently allows hobby distilling in the home

Please get involved and support the association once the membership portion of the site is operational.


I didn't know about Missouri...is a copy of that law available? Is it a good basis to use as a template?

I will get involved.

Thanks.
Offline admin  
#100 Posted : Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:08:22 AM(UTC)
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I am certain that I have seen a more specific law on the books in MO, but cannot find it. I can find the following:
http://moga.mo.gov/statu.../C300-399/3110000055.HTM
http://www.moga.mo.gov/s.../c300-399/3110000020.htm
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