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20 days fermenting and still going, why???? any thoughts?
 Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
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"guys, we mixed up this wash, it's been in my garage in a Brute 32 gal can, covered with screen and then the lid laid loosely on top, temp has been between 67F up to 82F No higher and never got to 85F for sure, but it's still bubbling and the hydrometer says no likker present and the specific gravity is at 1.070
tomorrow Saturday will make 21 days fermenting
35 LBS sugar
16 Gal water
2.5 lbs flaked rye
2.5 lbs flaked barley
10 lbs flaked maize
3 packs of prestige distillers yeast with AG
why would this recipe fail?
What confuses me is that my old recipe never fails and it is ready in 14-15 days
35lbs sugar
16 gal water
13 lbs cracked corn
3 packs prestige yeast with AG
this recipe always works
I just don't get it, is the Maize my issue?
Thanks in advance -Cajun"
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"clarification please, are you saying that the hydrometer says 1.070 at this point right now or was that the starting point?
if you take a gravity reading right now what does it say? That will tell you if it's done for sure.
if it's at .999-1.000 or there abouts it's done.
I dont think the extra grain will make all that much difference cause they both have 35 lbs of sugar and thats what the yeast is eating.
I bet the lower temp just slowed it down some and it's done by now.
good luck.....run it,"
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
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no heeler , it's 21 days still bubbling and that reading of 1.070 was 2 days ago, today it's 1.060, I didn't take the starting SG cause I didn't think it would fail like this. so I am 3 weeks into ferment and man it's moving slow, I have to blame the Maize, crack corn would have been ready by now.... it's been cool at night and 80's during the day... I don't know what to think other than keep fermenting
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Hi Cajun, 21 days is longer than normal. But you knew that. However if the SG dropped from 1.070 to 1.060 it is still working. I agree with Heeler. The extra grain should have had nothing to do with it. I would just let it keep going as long as the SG is falling.
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I believe the "with AG" means with alpha-glucosidase (aka glucoamylase, gamma-amylase, amyloglucosidase ) & this time you're using "flaked" grains which usually means it has already been gelatinized. So it's possible that the gluco is doing its job and converting some of the starches to fermentable sugars. Gluco is a slow worker (compared to alpha) since it can only lop off one glucose at a time from the end of a chain ... but it can also attack the branching bonds as well.
I never did any research on the "with AG" yeast offerings, but if it behaves as the manufacturer would have you believe, I would expect that the gluco comes from a source that would make it effective at typical fermentation temps ... otherwise the "with AG" wouldn't provide any benefit. For example, sake & other forms of rice wine typically use koji (A. Oryzae) ... which produces a bunch of enzymes (including GA) that are used for simultaneous saccharification and fermentation ... they're effective at normal fermentation temperatures.
In your initial recipe, if you didn't cook your cracked corn prior to fermentation (to gelatinize), the gluco wouldn't have much (or any) starch to convert ... so the yeast would simply process the 35 pounds of sugar and be done. So maybe the AG is working as advertised and slowly producing more fermentable sugar for your yeast, keeping the fermentation alive ... which sounds pretty damned cool to me. :)
This is interesting ... please keep us informed on how things go.
BTW: This doesn't sound like a failure to me at all ... if you get anywhere near 1.000 I'd say it would be a great success. Let it finish ... then let it clear some ... be patient & you may be very happy.
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I have worked a lot with the Gert Prestige Whiskey w/AG yeast. It's the best thing I have found for the sweet feed washes. It works very well in converting starches in grains. It also has a high tolerance for alcohol in the wash.
I did not see if the grains were steeped/soaked in 148f degree water (I realize the flaked maize doesn't need it, but the others might have needed to.) Nonetheless, that shouldn't have stopped things, just left starch in the grains... The sugar bill alone is enough.
I agree with the rest of the boys...Check that gravity each day and see if'n it's steadily declining. If it is, just wait for it.. We all have time frames in our minds about how long a ferment takes, but it is mother nature after all. I did three 5 gal SF washes, all in the same day, each one exactly as the other, and one of them stuck... and then started, and ran slower than the other two by 10 days!! Washes 2 and 3 were done in 11 days, while Wash 1 languished for another 10 but, in the end finished nicely.
All three washes were in the same ferment room, same temp, etc... Everything! The only difference is Wash 1 was in a new fermenter which I have now determined did not have a good seal. |
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
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thanks to all of you guys for your input, I will test SG this afternoon, this morning it's still bubbling/working I'll keep ya'll posted. RCRED your 3 washes were interesting, all of your comments help me understand the time frames that I think should be in my head. ya'll are right it's mother nature.
also I have never cooked a mash, I always dissolve my sugar add the rest of the water and grain bill, stir it up good, then pitch yeast on top for 15 min then stir again and cover with screen and loosely lay the lid on top.
more later - Cajun
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I believe that 80F is the maximum for this yeast, but would have to check to be sure. Also, was the cracked corn from the same bag as previous batches, or from a new bag? Is it possible that there were antibiotics in the cracked corn? This is something that I have seen in the past, and if the yeast survives at all it will be greatly hindered.
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Umm. Gert Strand Prestige Whiskey AG? - 88 max Pitch temp I do believe....  And they are serious.. Even 90 is too much.... I actually go for 84-86f... good catch, Rick, I forgot about that possibility... |
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
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Admin -this 21 day ferment has 10 lbs of flaked maize in it plus the barley and rye all from BH, I did not put cracked corn in this grain bill
now my old true recipe of using cracked corn has never failed me, I bet if I had put 10 cracked corn instead of Maize, it would be ready, but I am hoping for a better flavor with this current ferment.
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RCRED - today, right now it says it's at 83F its kinda hot outside today
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Originally Posted by: Cajun  RCRED - today, right now it says it's at 83F its kinda hot outside today Oh Nahsah, I meant pitching temp of yer water for the yeast during assembly of your ferment... 78 is about as warm as we wanna ever let a ferment get after pitch...That is why my missus can buy whatever as she allows me to take over a guest room as a ferment room  (Hell, No one e'er visits us except my parents, her parents, and the oft musician ever now an agin when there's been picking in the barn and someone's doo Tunk to wrive ) The thing that I understood about the flaked maise was that it is flaked using a hot roller, so it neededn't be "Cooked" but it does require hydration in 145f water, just that a fella ain' gotta "cook" it at 148 for any length of time... If you put that Maise in there cold, I am not sure how that affects it as I usually hit mine with 145-148f water... |
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The recommended pitch temperature for yeast is often about 10 degrees higher than the maximum fermentation temperature.
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Whoops, do I have it wrong? |
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well yesterday made 3 full weeks, so today would be day 22 and it's slowing down and the SG is 1.052 - I don't think it going to make it
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Well, that trended down from 1.070, right? so, about .009 per day... Check again in a day and let's see.. when it flat lines(doesn't change any more), then it's done.. Bubbles are a visual, and a good indicator an all, but the Hydrometer people need guys like me to keep dropping them - And it's a better measure than just bubbles |
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
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yeah I just checked in on it, it's got a slow bubble still going on, but it's not like yesterday and it's hot here today about 89F outside....it's gonna cool off on tuesday
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
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well it failed, saturday was 28 days, SG was still at 1.050, it's been there well over a week, on saturday it was not really still working but it had bubbles on top of it, it looked creamy bad, yucky stuff stuck to my SG hydrometer, it smelled a little bitter, we thru it away!
I think what Johnbarleycorn said about the flaked maize,barley and rye is pre-gelintized and I used prestige yeast with AG which may be my issue.
basically I have had no luck with flaked maize, barley and rye as of yet and I have not heated or cooked any grain, RCRED says he soaks his maize in 148 temp water first, I have not done that.
Think I will stay away from the flaked grains unless someone can tell me what I have to do exactly to use them, I felt this grain bill would have been good.
I am running out of likker so I mixed up a 6.5 gal sugar wash yesterday, it's in my kitchen and I hope to run it this saturday
Thanks - Cajun
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why not try UJSSM. It's easy tastes good and pretty hard not to get a good product
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
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I have made UJSSM, I was just trying something new.
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