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Offline KGB  
#1 Posted : Saturday, December 22, 2012 3:29:43 AM(UTC)
KGB


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"Hey guys,

Please bear with me. I need to paraphrase that which I have read with regard to the importance of making a yeast starter. I need my understanding corroborated by the multitude. This writing is intentionally condensed, i.e., I have disregarded finite detail and summarized for the sake of brevity.

Two Major Active Yeast Phases:
There are two major phases with which we must be concerned when dealing with yeast:

1) aerobic
2) anaerobic

Aerobic phase:
When yeast is first pitched, oxygen that's dissolved in the liquid portion of wort, is used by yeast to propagate. Stated differently, no alcohol is made during the aerobic phase. The aerobic phase is used strictly for reproduction. Reproduction continues until all available oxygen is used. Quickly increasing yeast-count is very important because this leads to quicker oxygen depletion. The sooner oxygen is depleted, the quicker ETOH production begins. The longer it takes yeast to convert the ""system"" from aerobic to anaerobic, the greater the chance that old yeast become sick and produce off-flavored products. Also as the time interval increases between the aerobic and anaerobic phase, the opportunity for wort to become infected with wild yeast or bacteria heightens. Stated differently, rapidly converting from aerobic to anaerobic phase is desirable because this decreases the chance of wort infection and off-flavored products. Rapidly evolving young healthy yeast adds to the overall health (taste) of fresh wort. Vast numbers of healthy young yeast are needed to quickly deplete dissolved oxygen so the anaerobic phase can be initiated.

Anaerobic:
A very basic review of the aerobic phase has been presented. Discussion of the anaerobic phase will be far shallower.

It is the anaerobic phase that produces ETOH. The faster we convert to anaerobic phase, the faster we will produce ETOH. The faster our conversion occurs, the less chance we have of incurring an infection. The only way I know of accelerating conversion is to use up oxygen. The only way I know to quickly deplete oxygen is to vastly increase the number of yeast. The only way I know to vastly increase the number of yeast is to make a Yeast Starter.

Yeast Starter:
This is the section where I become somewhat confused regarding the process of making a Yeast Starter ,, as well as ingredients used. According to instructions, it takes about 16 to 18 hours, after hydrating a couple packs of dried yeast, to successfully make about 1 quart of Yeast Starter.
When deciphering instructions from various authorities, most authorities clash over one thing or another regarding the making of a Yeast Starter. All agree that you begin with a yeast count that is scant by comparison and in 18 hours healthy yeast have multiplied to an untold number. Naturally, this is desirable.

It would seem that nearly all authorities allude to or outright state that the temperature of the Yeast Starter should be maintained at the temperature of the wort. If not, when the starter is pitched, yeast well be "shocked" causing death or sickness to the healthy yeast, or an overall "unhappy feeling" which may lead to a "stuck fermentation", a "retarded fermentation", a bad taste, or all three. Ok, I can blindly follow that reasoning.

Regarding ingredients, all seemingly agree that one should never stray from the composition of wort being used. Again it is cited that yeast may become "sick" and this could result in unwanted, distasteful products. At least one authority states that the starter should be made from the wort being used. Even so, the authority shortly contradicts himself when highly recommending the addition of DME (dried malt extract), which is never added to my wort. The authority goes on to state, "If a starter is made from strictly sucrose and water, and this mix added to a wort, made in part from grain, yeast will "hit a brick wall" when faced with the proposition of utilizing such sugars as maltose (and various other sugars from grain) thus fermentation may stall". Still, another authority makes no mention of DME but highly touts the use of DAP (diammonium phosphate), citric acid, CaSO4~2H2O (gypsum), and Epsom Salt as additives to make all Yeast Starters. I can clearly see the importance of adding plant food, e.g., DAP and Epson Salt, to the fray as sugar may not be enough to feed yeast. I can also see the importance of maintaining an acceptable pH and SG when making the starter.

All having been said, deviation from the working wort will have occurred when additives are incorporated into the starter. This is confounding and counter to recommendations that a starter be practically identical to the wort being used.

1. In your experience with making starters, have you experienced a total stall, retarded fermentation, or off taste if, when making a starter, deviating from the wort ingredients using additives?

2. I would like to make a wash using a simple mixture of sugar and water, with a SG between 1065 & 1080, and pitch a hefty starter to accelerate the process from aerobic to anaerobic. What are your recommendations for a starter that is to be used with a simple sugar/water wash?

KGB"
Offline heeler  
#2 Posted : Saturday, December 22, 2012 11:31:13 AM(UTC)
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"Wow...I have never added all those things directly to the starter just the beer or wort then used a pint of that for my starter. So infact I was using all those things.

If you construct your wort and then dip out the amount of a starter you want all those things will be in there. That will be fine I'm sure.

You said --DME in the starter but not my wash..well the starter yeast will consume the sugars in the DME and it will be so dilluted once added back to a 5 gallon wash that the flavor will most likely not be noticable in your distillate anyway.

The concern of off taste from starter to wort is understandable but not really necessary, I'm not saying anybody is wrong or I'm right but in my expirence it's never been a problem.

Again your making a sugar likker which is a neutral anyway and if stilled in such a fashion as to enhance that, the off flavors should be left behind."
Offline scotty  
#3 Posted : Saturday, December 22, 2012 12:28:59 PM(UTC)
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A note-- oxygen is not produced. You must add it. Usually be using a fish tank type pump and stone. Usually only means that I do it that way. Others do it diferently.
Offline KGB  
#4 Posted : Saturday, December 22, 2012 2:38:13 PM(UTC)
KGB


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"
Originally Posted by: scotty Go to Quoted Post
A note-- oxygen is not produced. You must add it. Usually be using a fish tank type pump and stone. Usually only means that I do it that way. Others do it diferently.


Hi Scotty,

I am not sure where you were heading with your statement, ""..........Oxygen is not produced"". Fearing that I made a type written mistake, I returned to my post but found no place that I had stated that O2 was produced. Naturally, you did not say, ""KGB you said O2 was produced"". I just felt you were implying I had made that fatal error.

You are right Scotty. O2 IS NOT produced, rather, CO2. As I had stated near the commencement of my post, finite detail had been omitted for the sake of brevity. For those having never made a starter, O2 must be somehow added *BECAUSE* when wort is boiled as a means of disinfection, dissolved oxygen (picked up from the atmosphere in tap water or spring water) is *chased* from the liquid, when boiled, leaving the wart Oxygen-Deprived. Since yeast need O2 to reproduce, oxygen must be be reintroduced into the disinfected starter liquid. This can be done in several ways:

1. by carefully shaking the starter, for about 5 minutes, in its disinfected container at least once an hour for the next 6 to 8 hours
2. by carefully stirring the liquid, for about 5 minutes, with a disinfected metal spoon at least once an hour for the next 6 to 8 hours
3. by using an aquarium pump (continuous action) with an IN LINE HEPA FILTER and a disinfected aeration ""stone"" (actually a metal porous 2 micron filter) that has been boiled prior to dunking the filter in the wort.

I have used chemical disinfection but care must be taken that the chemical be throughly removed prior to adding yeast or you may kill your yeast with the disinfectant. When possible (and it is certainly possible with a large metal spoon) I flame the mouths of my jars and my metal spoons with a propane torch. It's no different than passing an inoculum loop through a flame. It only takes a second or so. The metal aeration filter is designed to be boiled as a means of disinfection. These are the methods that one use to introduce oxygen back into the liquid so yeast can propagate.

KGB"
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