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Offline Caveman  
#21 Posted : Thursday, December 13, 2012 1:14:53 PM(UTC)
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Ok..I have the drawing done and trying to put it out here for you...but when I insert image it tells me that image is to big..and I've even cropped it and still to big..so what am I doing wrong for uploading a file to show this....????
Offline Maddawgs  
#22 Posted : Friday, December 14, 2012 1:10:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Caveman Go to Quoted Post
Ok..I have the drawing done and trying to put it out here for you...but when I insert image it tells me that image is to big..and I've even cropped it and still to big..so what am I doing wrong for uploading a file to show this....????

Hi Caveman,
When I post images I first open them in paint, click on resize, put in a # below 100, save, then try and post it to the forum. If I get a size to large error I just go back to paint and resize until it works. I think (and I could be wrong) that cropping just cuts out parts of your image, it doesn't change the size.
Maddawgs
Offline Caveman  
#23 Posted : Friday, December 14, 2012 12:34:50 PM(UTC)
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[ATTACH=CONFIG]670[/ATTACH] ok hope this came out and if it did it was for Maddawgs who helped me out...you have to excuse the drawing but i'm no artist...but here is the heater contol that i'm gonna try out....i'm puting it all in a old large tackle box that i have which is plastic...if i was to use a steel box i would gnd that also..and this works with 220v and i see no reason it wouldn't with 120v. the SSR is a Smugle brand ac input and ac output up to 480v.
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Offline Maddawgs  
#24 Posted : Saturday, December 15, 2012 1:27:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Caveman Go to Quoted Post
[ATTACH=CONFIG]670[/ATTACH] ok hope this came out and if it did it was for Maddawgs who helped me out...you have to excuse the drawing but i'm no artist...but here is the heater contol that i'm gonna try out....i'm puting it all in a old large tackle box that i have which is plastic...if i was to use a steel box i would gnd that also..and this works with 220v and i see no reason it wouldn't with 120v. the SSR is a Smugle brand ac input and ac output up to 480v.

Hi Cm,
image looks good. Glad I could help-thats what the forum is all about.
Maddawgs
Offline RedSleds  
#25 Posted : Thursday, January 24, 2013 5:14:22 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: Caveman Go to Quoted Post
...the one i have ordered is the ...Sumgle 40a ac-ac 90v-250vac input and 24v-480vac output...

I think you have ordered the wrong type relay for using a potentiometer to control the heating element. On the one you ordered, you must supply anywhere from 90vac-250vac to the inputs to activate the relay, which will simply complete your circuit on the line outputs. Don't think it will do any varying of the power at all, and your element will just be drawing 100% for whatever voltage you're running through the output side of the relay, for as long as you supply the required voltage to the inputs. Essentially, it will simply be an on/off switch."
Offline Caveman  
#26 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:03:20 AM(UTC)
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Redsleds...you may have a point which I thought also....I haven't been able to put all this together yet for I have all the parts now except the element itself...I have alot of irons in the fire sort of speak ...so when I get the time i will try it out ..I'm going on a friends setup but he does have a much lower wattage element that he's using and it does work...I have kinda the same thought you do on it if he's just getting it up to temp and when he turns it dwn if it doesn't in fact turn it off...he says it doesn't ....guess its gonna be trail and error test first...but if you got any suggestions please let me know...I do know some of the others out here were on there way of trying this so maybe they came up with something.
Offline captinjack  
#27 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:20:17 AM(UTC)
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"Caveman,
Did you check out the one that I built, you can see it on my thread in the tech section. It's a sticky near the top called "" MY altarnative to a router speed control "" I used your drawing but made some small changes to suit my meter and I also added a ground to the ssvr where it mounts to the heat sink. It works great...
Thanks Captinjack"
Offline Caveman  
#28 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:42:12 AM(UTC)
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Awesome...thanx Captainjack
Offline joseph9936  
#29 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 2:43:13 AM(UTC)
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"I am using a SSR to control my Temperature in my process but it is very different then a manual operation. The SSR is s simple switch but the difference between that and a normal relay is that the SSR can switch VERY fast. I have my process on a plc so I use a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) command to send to the SSR ( Soild State Relay). If I want 50% It just simple has the time on and the time off on the relay equal. I'll be happy to post Engineering documents if someone wants to read more. I'm an Industrial Automation guy that does it everyday. Happy to share any of my super geek stuff.... let me know! :-)

Now for getting the results that you want for the cheapest cost you are all on the right path, not to mention it works very well. I seen it in action I think on Hillbilly Stills on a video. The end result is that you are looking for the 'sweet spot' to run your mash at. You will find once you find that for your still that you will not adjust on it much. :-)
my two bits......:-)"
Offline Caveman  
#30 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 3:49:55 AM(UTC)
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joseph9936....I have read up on the PWM and found out that it is more hi tech using a plc board...but guess what I don't really understand is ...if you are trying to keep a specific degree temp or a constant temp then its the way to go from what I have seen...if you can sennd us any diagrams or other thoughts for I know PWM is how it should really be done...but not as cheap as this application...
Offline joseph9936  
#31 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 4:12:39 AM(UTC)
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"let me tell you what I have and the way I do it in short. I am not saying it is the right way but my way. Take it all in and decide if it works for you....
I have a 15 gal keg and a ss tower with reflux, milehigh....I have two different elements install 1500 watt each. turn both on to heat up and then run only one once I get around 160 degree F. Then I reflux using cold water for about 45 min. this allows the levels of vapor to seperate after we stop refluxing. When i stop refluxing I adjust my water flow to the reflux where i get a slow drip ""every 3-4 seconds"" then let it run. I collect every 200 ml to decide my cuts later after i air it out.

Thoughts... I use to reduce heat during reflux but decided it was easier to size the heating elements to the right size for the process. If didnt I would have to have a way to reduce the element providing heat to the KEG. I see videos and I see them reduce the element output to a certain place everytime so I just shoot for the output by design:-) In a 15 gal keg I perfer two 1500 w elements. I might change one to a larger one to reduce the time I wait to heat up the mash but still thinking.....I also have two different pumps (I bought from Lowes) in just coolers. One for the reflux and one for the condensor. The condensor water gets pretty hot and it made my reflux hotter which made the reflux time shorter....I leave the condensor on all the time during the run. it just recirculates so who cares and no big water bill or mess in the yard.
I'm not saying I do it right but I do it my way and I continue to improve. My stuff is ran on a plc so all I do is hit start and then wait to switch out bottle of 200ml (about every 15min) I'll have 20 gal ready by next weekend so I am sure I will do it all again and adjust! lol"
Offline Caveman  
#32 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 4:41:49 AM(UTC)
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Hmmm....makes me wonder...I also 15 gal and running two 2500wt instead of a one 4500wt and was gonna put a inline switch to turn off the main element after it reaches temp but if the PWM can do that for me it just might be the cats meow...I'm learning with all the formulas that people come up with is different for everybody....I feel and maybe wrong that it has to deal also with what the weather is that day and the climate and the temp of your cond. water...
Offline captinjack  
#33 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 6:32:41 AM(UTC)
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Caveman,
Yes you are correct with the climate and weather also there is some good reading about vapor temp and distilling in the Distillation methods section, it's a sticky at the top called " Why you can't control vapor temperature " it gives some insight on whats going on and how it works...
Offline joseph9936  
#34 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 6:37:47 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: captinjack Go to Quoted Post
Caveman,
Yes you are correct with the climate and weather also there is some good reading about vapor temp and distilling in the Distillation methods section, it's a sticky at the top called "" Why you can't control vapor temperature "" it gives some insight on whats going on and how it works...


that is great information to understand

the best bet for great control is using the resistor type controller. easy cheap and great control.
I'll be happy to share any information that I have installed. fyi. I do trend my vapor temp and keg temps every 5 seconds. I can look at it later to understand what has happened during the run."
Offline halfbaked  
#35 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 10:43:01 AM(UTC)
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"http://www.stilldragon.com/diy-controller.html
I am not houchologist or sparky. If I were going to go electric I would have to have a kit or specific detailed instructions. Would this kit be a good way to go. I do believe that bigger is better in almost all situations. I would think 2- 5500 elements
220. One on a controller and one to unplug or turn off when it gets up to heat. Again I am not offering advice, I am asking questions. Thanks I really like this post. PLease keep it going and please be detailed. Thanks to the experts"
Offline joseph9936  
#36 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 2:59:38 PM(UTC)
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That controller is perfect! But now if you have too much power you will drive or force the vapors past the reflux. For example. If I have both of my 1500w elements going and do not turn one off when I reflux then vapors will go right out to the condenser. I even had ice in the cooler. The reflux area would be ice cold but vapors still getting by. So just find the sweet point where you are refluxing with the min power that way your reflux cooling water will not get to hot during a run. I have a radiator with fans but never use it because I got the tower dialed in
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