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Offline Thom  
#1 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2009 7:25:54 AM(UTC)
Thom


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"I ran off about 2 and three quarters quarts of 92.5% on a first run at full reflux.Was giving me about 1 tsp a min.Product was totaly clear.I had some that was 96 but I mixed all together and it averaged 92.5.I then waited two days and ran through the Buono Vino filter with charcoal pads three times.I used purified water to cut it to 40%.My product turned a slightly cloudy color after cutting.My mash was 16% made with Brewhaus Turbo yeast and sugar and purified water.Why would it turn milky? I ran into this quite some time ago when running with a primitive pot still.I thought that by using the reflux still and getting the real pure product I could get away from the old ""shine"" tast but its still there.I would like to make some good liqueurs but know that shine taste will come through.How can I get rid of that and why did it turn cloudy?

Thanks"
Offline Wade  
#2 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2009 8:07:22 AM(UTC)
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Too much tails in there, thats why you are supposed to keep all seperated.
Offline Thom  
#3 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2009 8:36:20 AM(UTC)
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"I had 25 litres of mash,I threw away the first half a cupof distilate my mash was 16pct I quit running below 80 degrees there was still lots of alcohol left in mash.I never took anything off after I hit 91%.I put in beaker at 300 ml each time and kept record.Water boils at my altitude at 91 degrees temp acording to my thermometer therefore the alcohol will start coming off earlier too.For that much mash And collecting under 3 quarts I should be OK.The product was crystal clear.Turned heat on at 215 in aft first out of condensor at 6pm.First beaker at 92pct threw that away.2nd beaker 95.5 pct.Kept that one.3rd one was controling heat came out at 95.25columntemp 74.Remember altitude 3400 ft Was taking about 37 min to get 300 ml.About a teaspoon a minute.I was refilling my sink with new water at each beaker and temp stayed at 74.It would warm approx 6 gal of water 9 degrees each 300 ml that was run off.at 504 in the morning thats 9 hrs after the first distilate came out only doing a teaspoon a min the column started to go up.Only one degree I quit.With this knowledge do you still think I got too much tails?



Thanks Thom"
Offline Thom  
#4 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2009 8:42:05 AM(UTC)
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Maybe Im answering my own questin.Because I quit rinning at 74 degrees is there a chance I had all heads and threw away the beat part of the mash? lol.I thought at my altitude every thing was about 8 to 9 degrees ahead.Oh well its a sugar mash so there cant be too much bad stuff in there.
Offline Wade  
#5 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:51:54 AM(UTC)
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How big of a wash did you put in there and what did you extract all in all. If 5 gallons went in at around 10%abv then you would have retrived about 1 25 gallons of product out with about 1 quart being heads and another being tails at the end. Everything in bteween is decent to very good. Dont throw out your heads and tails though, save those up and throw in yor next run as there is still good product there. The only thing you should be throwing out is the fisrt 50-100ml as that is nasty stuff but you could use that for weed killer or for disinfecting stuff I believe.
Offline Thom  
#6 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2009 11:35:31 AM(UTC)
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I put in 24 litres and quit when I had2 and 3quarters quarts.My mash was 16% alcohol.I probably ran it too slow cause that is why it took almost 12 hrs to get that off.All alcohol tests were above 90%.I checked every 300 ml
Offline Wade  
#7 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2009 11:45:27 AM(UTC)
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You are right in what you said. You should have started slow and removed the foreshots and the heads then ran a little faster to retrieve the hearts then collect the tails even faster and keep the heads and the tails seperate and run them in the next run. You are right in the fact that you mainly only collected heads although you did have some hearts in there.
Offline mtnwalker2  
#8 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:20:36 PM(UTC)
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"Wade and Thom,

Heads are not going to make a milky or cloudy result. Thom, did you dilute your finished product to at least 50% ABV before filtering? Did you boil and clean your activated carbon before use? Sounds like the carbon was in some kind of container? Wasn't fish filters was it? Give details..

Just a thought, as this could be the problem."
Offline Wade  
#9 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:27:50 PM(UTC)
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Ok, so its only tails that will get it cloudy?
Offline mtnwalker2  
#10 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:42:37 PM(UTC)
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"Tails are full of oils that are in solution at high proof. When cut to say 80 proof they congeal and form a milky or cloudy mix. Some ole timers will put it into a freezer and allow the oils to coagulate and float to the top, then wick them up with a paper towel or such.

I still think Thom may have had a problem with the carbon, or plastic container of them. Waiting to hear of his description and methods."
Offline Wade  
#11 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:56:06 PM(UTC)
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Good to know, Ive been keeping all seperate so far so didnt know that heads dont cloud up.
Offline Bamadan  
#12 Posted : Monday, March 30, 2009 2:54:54 PM(UTC)
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"did you run it back through your filter after cutting ?
I agree with mtn, thinking more in line of you filtering methods.
Also if you filled your unit to full it can cause this as well, just get some puke over.

Wade, you can get cloudy heads if you run too hard or you get a puke over.
If you run all the right though, it is correct that the heads will not be cloudy."
Offline billybob  
#13 Posted : Monday, March 30, 2009 3:54:31 PM(UTC)
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"I've seen poor water used to dilute the finished product that will make it cloudy. Tastes fine but looks like something went wrong. Filtered water from the sink maybe? Enquiring minds want to know....

billybob"
Offline tikisteve  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2009 10:16:22 AM(UTC)
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"I've always used distilled water and never had a problem with it clouding up, but I do notice when I dilute, the distillate looks cloudy but it is actually very tiny bubbles that clear up in a minute or two.
Try distilled water next time."
Offline mtnwalker2  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:33:27 AM(UTC)
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"I've always used distilled water and never had a problem with it clouding up, but I do notice when I dilute, the distillate looks cloudy but it is actually very tiny bubbles that clear up in a minute or two.
Try distilled water next time.
***************
Your post hasn't come up here yet, but to answer.

When you cut high proof with water, you will always not a milky mix, that will very soon dissapear. You will also note that it will get quite hot, like a chemical reaction. There is an interaction between the high proof ethanol and water. This is why it is reccomended, when diluting like this to allow a min. of a week and preferably a month for them to marry prior to drinking or useing essence. Won't hurt you, but will make it much more enjoyable.

Interesting point about this. If you make say a 90 proof vodka, and put it in the freezer the same day as dilution, you will get seperation and ice formed. If you allow it to age several weeks, it won't. The water has merged by that time with the alchohal into a complete mix."
Offline Thom  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, April 08, 2009 6:19:04 AM(UTC)
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Just got back from holiday.Read posts.I used purified water to cut it and it is still milky after one week and a half.No i didnt have puke over ,I ran it at one teaspoon full a minute.Distillate was cold.Will run with next batch.I ran this product off in full reflux and took over 12 hrs to cook it off.Will try a fast run next time and then a second run.I never ran into this problem even with my old pot still.
Offline Thom  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, April 08, 2009 6:21:30 AM(UTC)
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I used the Buono Vino filter with charcoal pads from Brewhaus
Offline BarrysHomebrew  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:08:23 PM(UTC)
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"""Purified water"" and distilled water are very different things. one is filtered and one is distilled.
I would suspect the cloudiness comes from either fluoride, zinc or even trace chlorites missed from the filtering process.
Wal mart has distilled water next to their ""drinking"" and ""spring"" water. Read the labels carefully and invest the $.65 and post your results.

If it is still clouding.. try another reflux run and watch your temp at the top of the still closely. I had my thermometer too close to the cooling tubes at the top of the column and ran way too hot at first. One the second run, I kept it at 80*c +/- 2* and got some very nice 93% and no clouds after watering back. Not bad for a first timer /pats self on back."
Offline rick2014  
#19 Posted : Monday, May 04, 2009 12:27:07 PM(UTC)
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"Maybe its a personal thing, reading labels helps sometimes. Many ""purified water"" in bottles comes from the tap. Distilled should be distilled, sometimes even filtered before and\or after. Some labels don't tell ya the true story. My Wally Worlds or Sprawl Marts charge higher prices, not much. I still use my own for drinking.

In my case for drinking - first charcoal filter using a filter on the tap, then I distill the water and charcoal again using a separate filter. The filtering agents are changed every 3 months or based on usage. This doesn't take long as the filtering systems don't require attention except to remove the clean water. The crap left smelly and crusty, what's left in the distillers.

Cloudiness can be many things? My hot water comes cloudy from the tap and stays that way for a couple days left in a jar at <74F and >63F. Maybe tiny bubbles or who knows?

I saw that the EPA was testing water going into Wash. DC for TV reporters and found >300 subsistences, because of?. They normally only test check for <100. Many things are disposed of in our waterways."
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